1-Regarding the Description of love, Ovid tried to teach how to get the heart of a woman and how to keep it. Basically Ovid states that it is important to “light the fire of passion in the soul, choose one whom you can call your only love, to find a fitting mistress, use your eyes.” I saw an article in Menshealth.com about how to seduce her in 10 minutes: your approach, your introduction, your voice, your conversation, your body language and your first impression. I think that the Menshealth article shows better what a woman expected from a man.
How to cure oneself from heartache from the eye of Ovid basically the men need “Keep their doors open”, “don’t ask what she is doing”, “let your indifference is enough”, which means forget about the past an move on. According to Ovid’s comments, it is easer for men to cure heartache then for women. On the other hand, what I noted in some websites comments, such as answers.yahoo.com, that heartache is difficult to be cure for both men and women. One specific comment attracted my attention because shows a sensitive side of men. A man made a comment about how the society conditioned the men since child to “act lie a man”, be “tough” and “get over it”, but forget that men are human being and that have feelings too. People have the wrong idea that “men get over heartbreak quicker than women”. The society makes men to move on by pretending they are not caring it, and some of them end up by drinking, fighting or making rude comments about their ex.
2- Tiresias lived as men and women and he/she had the experience as both men and women. One day, Zeus and Hera were having a discussion about who enjoyed sex more and asked Tiresias to tell his/her opinion. Teresias answered that the women enjoyed sex more then men (I don’t really know if he /she answered this because he really preferred to be a woman than a man, or if he was afraid of Zeus's power.) Hera got ferocious with his answer and made him blind. Zeus trying to help Tiresias gave him the power to be a prophet. One day he was forced to reveal Oedipus about his destiny, that Oedipus killed his father and had kids with his mother.
3- I partially agree with Capellanus’ rules; some rules I agree and some I disagree. I agree that Marriage is no excuse for not loving. There is a difference between passion and love. First starts with passion and after years of marriage the passion decrease, but on the other hand the true love appears. No marriage survives without love, but we must love ourselves too. Also I agree that “a new love expels an old one”. There is an expression in my country that says: the best way to cure heart break is to find another one to love.
I do not agree that there is an “age limit” for love. It states that a woman over 50 and a man over 60 cannot love; this is a discrimination against old people. I have a couple of friends that found love after 50 and they are very happy. On the other hand I know a lot of young couples that got married young and their marriage didn’t last for so long. It concludes that there is no age for love.
Courtly Love Readings
Andreas Capellanus (late 12th cent.)
De Amore (1184-86)
A Treatise on Courtly Love (Excerpts)
What is Love?
Love is an inborn suffering proceeding from the sight and immoderate thought upon the beauty of the other sex, for which cause above all other things one wishes to embrace the other and, by common assent, in this embrace to fulfill the commandments of love. . . .
From Whence Love is Named
"Love (amor)" is derived from the word "hook (amar)", which signifies "capture" or "be captured." For he who loves is caught in the chains of desire and wishes to catch another with his hook.
What is the Effect of Love
The true lover can not be corrupted by avarice; love makes an ugly and rude person shine with all beauty, knows how to endow with nobility even one of humble birth, can even lend humility to the proud; he who loves is accustomed humbly to serve others.
What Persons are Suited for Love
[The author goes on to specify the requirements of a lover -- girls must be at least 12, boys 14, though for true love men must be at least 18 years old and under 60 (after that age, though copulation is possible true passion is lacking); women must be under fifty. Age, blindness and excessive passion are all bars to true love.]
Blindness impedes love, for a blind man cannot see that on which his mind can reflect immoderately. Therefore love cannot arise in him, as is adequately proven above. But I recognize that this is true only of the moment in which love is acquired, for I do not deny that love can endure in a man who acquired love before he went blind.
Too great an abundance of passion impedes love, for there are those who are so enslaved by desire that they cannot be restrained by the bonds of love; those who after deep thoughts of their lady or even having enjoyed the fruits of love, when they see another immediately desire her embraces, forgetting the services received from their former lover and revealing their ingratitude.
The Rules of Love
1. Marriage is no excuse for not loving.2. He who is not jealous can not love.3. No one can be bound by two loves.4. Love is always growing or diminishing.5. It is not good for one lover to take anything against the will of the other.6. A male cannot love until he has fully reached puberty.7. Two years of mourning for a dead lover are prescribed for surviving lovers.8. No one should be deprived of love without a valid reason.9. No one can love who is not driven to do so by the power of love.10. Love always departs from the dwelling place of avarice.11. It is not proper to love one whom one would be ashamed to marry.12. The true lover never desires the embraces of any save his lover.13. Love rarely lasts when it is revealed.14. An easy attainment makes love contemptible; a difficult onemakes it more dear.15. Every lover turns pale in the presence of his beloved.16. When a lover suddenly has sight of his beloved, his heart beats wildly.17. A new love expells an old one.18. Moral integrity alone makes one worthy of love.19. If love diminishes, it quickly leaves and rarely revives.20. A lover is always fearful.21. True jealousy always increases the effects of love.22. If a lover suspects another, jealousy and the efects of love increase.23. He who is vexed by the thoughts of love eats little and seldom sleeps.24. Every action of a lover ends in the thought of his beloved.25. The true lover believes only that which he thinks will please his beloved.26. Love can deny nothing to love.27. A lover can never have enough of the embraces of his beloved.28. The slightest suspicion incites the lover to suspect the worse of his beloved.29. He who suffers from an excess of passion is not suited to love.30. The true lover is continuously obsessed with the image of his beloved.31. Nothing prevents a woman from being loved by two men, or a manfrom being loved by two women.
Ovid’s Ars Amoratia
Who in this town knows not the lover’s art (Cont’d)
Should read this book, and play an expert’s part. Don’t miss the ring where animals race
It’s art that speeds the boat with oars and sails, you’ll find much vantage in that crowded place
Art drives the chariot, art in love prevails. Not here by sign of hand or nod of head
For young Love’s guide has Venus chosen men, need hints be dropped or messages be sped.
Love’s pilot and Love’s charioteer I’ll be. Sit next to your mistress none can say “no”
Though he be wild and apt to flout my rule, press side to side as close as you may
He’s but a boy, an easy age to school. Thanks to the custom of the crowded bench
The worse he stabs, the fiercer burns his flame shy though she is, you’re bound to squeeze her.
So much the fitter I to avenge the maim.
I’ll not pretend to powers by Phoebus given, New love will the Circus bring
Nor warnings uttered by the fowls of heaven. And the sad gladiator’s sandy ring.
Experience prompts my labors. Heed the sage: Love often in an arena fights a bout
With truths oh Venus! Help me fill my page. Look too for openings at the festive board,
For wine is not the diner’s sole reward.
To find an object worthy of his suit wine lights the fire of passion in the soul,
Is the first duty of our new recruit: cares melt and vanish in the brimming bowl.
The next to gain the chosen damsel’s ‘yes’, then laughter comes and frowns and cares
The last to keep her love for many a day. And sorrows take to flight. But beware:
Night hides each fault, each blemish forgot
While you are free with slackened rein to rove the hour can make a beauty of a dog
Choose one whom you can call your only love. To daylight pearls and purple gowns refer
Think not she’ll drop before you from the skies: of face a body let the day be judge.
To find a fitting mistress, use your eyes.
The hunter learns where stags are to be snared,
And in what glens the tusky boar is laired;
So you who’re on a lasting love intent
Must learn the spots that damsels most frequent.
Thick as the stars the fair abound in Rome;
In her son’s city Venus makes her home.
If it’s the first still budding years you prize,
A genuine maid is there to greet your eyes.
If mellow age attracts and riper mind,
Here too, be sure, a goodly throng you’ll find.
Presenter 3 Text:
First tell yourself all women can be won: (cont’d)
Just spread your nets; the thing’s as good as done. Nor let your hair with curling tongs be curled
Scrape acquaintance with your lover’s maid: nor make your limbs soft with pumice stone
Your path will be the smoother for her aid. Leave such to the women
See that her mistress’ confidence she shares man’s beauty needs no varnish.
And holds the secret of her love affairs. Limb’s clean and tanned by exercise delight,
Her with prayers and promises secure; and spotless clothes that match the figure right.
With her good will you triumph. Have expert hands trim hair and beard
Then try your lover when her rival’s roused her anger: keep nostrils free from lurking bristles
Make it your duty to avenge the slight. Nor by foul breath from unclean lips exhaled.
Bid her maid speak of you and plead your case.
Should one seduce the maid as well? Tears are helpful too, tears will melt a stone
The graves risks in such adventures dwell. Wet cheeks at all costs must be shown.
One’s keen, one slacker having shared your sleep, if tears should fail you, touch your eyes
One takes you for your mistress, one to keep. With a moistened hand, perhaps she’ll first
The issue’s doubtful: even though chance befriend resist and call you rude, yet while resisting longs
The plan’s not one that I would recommend. To be subdued. But careful, lest her tender lips
My lady’s birthday most of all beware, be scarred and she cry “you kiss to hard.”
Ban any day when giving’s in the air.
Dodge as you will, she’ll rob you: woman’s brain diverse are women’s hearts
Discovers ways to steal. A thousand minds demand a thousand arts.
Be warned and to Rhetoric pay heed. Nor think one method for all ages fit:
Just as the courts, the senate and the crowd who shocks a prude makes a poor wretch
So woman’s heart by eloquence is bowed. Distrust herself at once; and thus, while
Use language plain and speech of common folk from a gentleman she shrinks, into some
If it’s rejected at first and returned unread lowly embrace she vilely sinks.
Expect she’ll read it soon and go ahead.
Presenter 4 Text (The Cures of Love):
When Cupid read the title of this volume, (cont’d)
‘It’s war on me’ he cried. Her figure’s slender? Call her lank and lean.
Please Cupid don’t hold me, your poet, guilty And call her pert if she’s not naïve.
Who at your side so long your flag bore. And if she’s well behaved, naïve you mean.
Others may cool, but I’m in love forever, coax her to demonstrate her lack of talent:
Besides I’ve taught the art to win you. if she has no voice, insist upon her singing
Sweet boy, I’ve not betrayed you and make her dance if she can’t move her arms.
Good luck to any lover who likes loving. Her accent’s bad? Keep her in conversations
But if some minx has got him in her clutches, her teeth are bad? Say what will make her laugh.
Safety in this book he’ll find. It will help to pay a sudden visit at morning
Why should a lover knot a noose and dangle before she’s put on her disguise
Or plunge a sword in his breast? Dress sweeps us off our feet: in gold and jewels
Let him who’ll die of love unless he ends it all is hidden: the girl herself is the smallest part.
End it, then Love shall be the death of none. Among so much you wonder what you’re loving
You’re a boy, you’re only fit for playing when you see her face and the ointments
A kindly reign best suits your years: play on. and colors and greases it will turn your stomach
You who find it hard to unlearn your loving avoid lonely places lovers. Lonely places
Who can’t and wish you could, must call me. are harmful; in a crowd you’re more secure.
Keep thinking what your wicked girl’s been doing; you have no need of privacy, if you’re alone
Before your eyes set every loss you’ve had: you’ll mope. Your girl abandoned before
“There’s this and that and still she wants more your eyes will loom. Also, the night is sadder
I’ve had to sell my house, it got so bad. Than the hours of sunshine, with no companions
She dotes on others, finds my love offensive to relieve your gloom. So keep your doors open
And gives a salesman nights I get no more.” Nor in the dark to conceal yourself.
Let all those things embitter your whole being don’t ask what she’s doing, stop moaning!
Brood over them, seek seeds of hatred here. From silence she’ll just fade away.
Make comments about her attractions: but it’s a crime to hate your ex-girlfriend
“those legs, how ugly; those arms are not pretty that bad way out is for brutes.
how short she is! How demanding!” let your indifference is enough: who ends love hating
comments fall on the wrong side. is still in love and can’t easily let go of sorrow.
De Amore (1184-86)
A Treatise on Courtly Love (Excerpts)
What is Love?
Love is an inborn suffering proceeding from the sight and immoderate thought upon the beauty of the other sex, for which cause above all other things one wishes to embrace the other and, by common assent, in this embrace to fulfill the commandments of love. . . .
From Whence Love is Named
"Love (amor)" is derived from the word "hook (amar)", which signifies "capture" or "be captured." For he who loves is caught in the chains of desire and wishes to catch another with his hook.
What is the Effect of Love
The true lover can not be corrupted by avarice; love makes an ugly and rude person shine with all beauty, knows how to endow with nobility even one of humble birth, can even lend humility to the proud; he who loves is accustomed humbly to serve others.
What Persons are Suited for Love
[The author goes on to specify the requirements of a lover -- girls must be at least 12, boys 14, though for true love men must be at least 18 years old and under 60 (after that age, though copulation is possible true passion is lacking); women must be under fifty. Age, blindness and excessive passion are all bars to true love.]
Blindness impedes love, for a blind man cannot see that on which his mind can reflect immoderately. Therefore love cannot arise in him, as is adequately proven above. But I recognize that this is true only of the moment in which love is acquired, for I do not deny that love can endure in a man who acquired love before he went blind.
Too great an abundance of passion impedes love, for there are those who are so enslaved by desire that they cannot be restrained by the bonds of love; those who after deep thoughts of their lady or even having enjoyed the fruits of love, when they see another immediately desire her embraces, forgetting the services received from their former lover and revealing their ingratitude.
The Rules of Love
1. Marriage is no excuse for not loving.2. He who is not jealous can not love.3. No one can be bound by two loves.4. Love is always growing or diminishing.5. It is not good for one lover to take anything against the will of the other.6. A male cannot love until he has fully reached puberty.7. Two years of mourning for a dead lover are prescribed for surviving lovers.8. No one should be deprived of love without a valid reason.9. No one can love who is not driven to do so by the power of love.10. Love always departs from the dwelling place of avarice.11. It is not proper to love one whom one would be ashamed to marry.12. The true lover never desires the embraces of any save his lover.13. Love rarely lasts when it is revealed.14. An easy attainment makes love contemptible; a difficult onemakes it more dear.15. Every lover turns pale in the presence of his beloved.16. When a lover suddenly has sight of his beloved, his heart beats wildly.17. A new love expells an old one.18. Moral integrity alone makes one worthy of love.19. If love diminishes, it quickly leaves and rarely revives.20. A lover is always fearful.21. True jealousy always increases the effects of love.22. If a lover suspects another, jealousy and the efects of love increase.23. He who is vexed by the thoughts of love eats little and seldom sleeps.24. Every action of a lover ends in the thought of his beloved.25. The true lover believes only that which he thinks will please his beloved.26. Love can deny nothing to love.27. A lover can never have enough of the embraces of his beloved.28. The slightest suspicion incites the lover to suspect the worse of his beloved.29. He who suffers from an excess of passion is not suited to love.30. The true lover is continuously obsessed with the image of his beloved.31. Nothing prevents a woman from being loved by two men, or a manfrom being loved by two women.
Ovid’s Ars Amoratia
Who in this town knows not the lover’s art (Cont’d)
Should read this book, and play an expert’s part. Don’t miss the ring where animals race
It’s art that speeds the boat with oars and sails, you’ll find much vantage in that crowded place
Art drives the chariot, art in love prevails. Not here by sign of hand or nod of head
For young Love’s guide has Venus chosen men, need hints be dropped or messages be sped.
Love’s pilot and Love’s charioteer I’ll be. Sit next to your mistress none can say “no”
Though he be wild and apt to flout my rule, press side to side as close as you may
He’s but a boy, an easy age to school. Thanks to the custom of the crowded bench
The worse he stabs, the fiercer burns his flame shy though she is, you’re bound to squeeze her.
So much the fitter I to avenge the maim.
I’ll not pretend to powers by Phoebus given, New love will the Circus bring
Nor warnings uttered by the fowls of heaven. And the sad gladiator’s sandy ring.
Experience prompts my labors. Heed the sage: Love often in an arena fights a bout
With truths oh Venus! Help me fill my page. Look too for openings at the festive board,
For wine is not the diner’s sole reward.
To find an object worthy of his suit wine lights the fire of passion in the soul,
Is the first duty of our new recruit: cares melt and vanish in the brimming bowl.
The next to gain the chosen damsel’s ‘yes’, then laughter comes and frowns and cares
The last to keep her love for many a day. And sorrows take to flight. But beware:
Night hides each fault, each blemish forgot
While you are free with slackened rein to rove the hour can make a beauty of a dog
Choose one whom you can call your only love. To daylight pearls and purple gowns refer
Think not she’ll drop before you from the skies: of face a body let the day be judge.
To find a fitting mistress, use your eyes.
The hunter learns where stags are to be snared,
And in what glens the tusky boar is laired;
So you who’re on a lasting love intent
Must learn the spots that damsels most frequent.
Thick as the stars the fair abound in Rome;
In her son’s city Venus makes her home.
If it’s the first still budding years you prize,
A genuine maid is there to greet your eyes.
If mellow age attracts and riper mind,
Here too, be sure, a goodly throng you’ll find.
Presenter 3 Text:
First tell yourself all women can be won: (cont’d)
Just spread your nets; the thing’s as good as done. Nor let your hair with curling tongs be curled
Scrape acquaintance with your lover’s maid: nor make your limbs soft with pumice stone
Your path will be the smoother for her aid. Leave such to the women
See that her mistress’ confidence she shares man’s beauty needs no varnish.
And holds the secret of her love affairs. Limb’s clean and tanned by exercise delight,
Her with prayers and promises secure; and spotless clothes that match the figure right.
With her good will you triumph. Have expert hands trim hair and beard
Then try your lover when her rival’s roused her anger: keep nostrils free from lurking bristles
Make it your duty to avenge the slight. Nor by foul breath from unclean lips exhaled.
Bid her maid speak of you and plead your case.
Should one seduce the maid as well? Tears are helpful too, tears will melt a stone
The graves risks in such adventures dwell. Wet cheeks at all costs must be shown.
One’s keen, one slacker having shared your sleep, if tears should fail you, touch your eyes
One takes you for your mistress, one to keep. With a moistened hand, perhaps she’ll first
The issue’s doubtful: even though chance befriend resist and call you rude, yet while resisting longs
The plan’s not one that I would recommend. To be subdued. But careful, lest her tender lips
My lady’s birthday most of all beware, be scarred and she cry “you kiss to hard.”
Ban any day when giving’s in the air.
Dodge as you will, she’ll rob you: woman’s brain diverse are women’s hearts
Discovers ways to steal. A thousand minds demand a thousand arts.
Be warned and to Rhetoric pay heed. Nor think one method for all ages fit:
Just as the courts, the senate and the crowd who shocks a prude makes a poor wretch
So woman’s heart by eloquence is bowed. Distrust herself at once; and thus, while
Use language plain and speech of common folk from a gentleman she shrinks, into some
If it’s rejected at first and returned unread lowly embrace she vilely sinks.
Expect she’ll read it soon and go ahead.
Presenter 4 Text (The Cures of Love):
When Cupid read the title of this volume, (cont’d)
‘It’s war on me’ he cried. Her figure’s slender? Call her lank and lean.
Please Cupid don’t hold me, your poet, guilty And call her pert if she’s not naïve.
Who at your side so long your flag bore. And if she’s well behaved, naïve you mean.
Others may cool, but I’m in love forever, coax her to demonstrate her lack of talent:
Besides I’ve taught the art to win you. if she has no voice, insist upon her singing
Sweet boy, I’ve not betrayed you and make her dance if she can’t move her arms.
Good luck to any lover who likes loving. Her accent’s bad? Keep her in conversations
But if some minx has got him in her clutches, her teeth are bad? Say what will make her laugh.
Safety in this book he’ll find. It will help to pay a sudden visit at morning
Why should a lover knot a noose and dangle before she’s put on her disguise
Or plunge a sword in his breast? Dress sweeps us off our feet: in gold and jewels
Let him who’ll die of love unless he ends it all is hidden: the girl herself is the smallest part.
End it, then Love shall be the death of none. Among so much you wonder what you’re loving
You’re a boy, you’re only fit for playing when you see her face and the ointments
A kindly reign best suits your years: play on. and colors and greases it will turn your stomach
You who find it hard to unlearn your loving avoid lonely places lovers. Lonely places
Who can’t and wish you could, must call me. are harmful; in a crowd you’re more secure.
Keep thinking what your wicked girl’s been doing; you have no need of privacy, if you’re alone
Before your eyes set every loss you’ve had: you’ll mope. Your girl abandoned before
“There’s this and that and still she wants more your eyes will loom. Also, the night is sadder
I’ve had to sell my house, it got so bad. Than the hours of sunshine, with no companions
She dotes on others, finds my love offensive to relieve your gloom. So keep your doors open
And gives a salesman nights I get no more.” Nor in the dark to conceal yourself.
Let all those things embitter your whole being don’t ask what she’s doing, stop moaning!
Brood over them, seek seeds of hatred here. From silence she’ll just fade away.
Make comments about her attractions: but it’s a crime to hate your ex-girlfriend
“those legs, how ugly; those arms are not pretty that bad way out is for brutes.
how short she is! How demanding!” let your indifference is enough: who ends love hating
comments fall on the wrong side. is still in love and can’t easily let go of sorrow.
Monday, October 13, 2008
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
2 comments:
i agree with your opinion that love hs no age limit. Again, Ovid is giving the notion that love is more of a physical connection since the older you get, the harder it is to look attractive or even "make love". He also mentions that blind men cannot fall in love. I think his views are more of a hypothesis that love can't be created without physical attraction.
I also agree with your view on Capellanus. In regards to the "age rule", you are spot on. I have read numerous stories about people that find love when they are well above 50 years old. Love knows no age, race, creed, size, etc... Also, his comment that blind people cannot love because they cannot see is absolutely ridiculous! He is basing his views of love solely off of physical attraction!
Post a Comment