Ovid's description of love is generally self-centered compared to current descriptions of "how to find love". I read a couple of different articles on Askmen.com and Menshealth.com, both of which suggested ways to attract women. Ovid's description of love seemed as if a man could simply choose who he loved. Today we see a number of pick-up lines and ice breakers that will interest the opposite sex. Although most don't really work, there is a general consensus that we are trying to impress the OTHER person. Ovid's description of love was extremely selfish, "choose one whom you can call your only love." Ovid doesn't realize that love is a two way street. You can't "choose" someone and decide to love them. Ovid's cure for love was also a lot harsher than many suggest today, although I think his method works best. Ovid's plan is to think of your former love in a bad light. Take any flaws you see in your ex and embellish them in your mind. In order for this to work, you have to completely believe what you are saying. It is a very difficult process to go through but it is very effective. Today, many magazines suggest taking down pictures to wipe away memories or to simply forget your ex. I think that's too hard to do and simply impossible.
Tiresias lived as both a man and a woman at separate times. When asked by Zeus and Hera who enjoyed sex more, men or women, he replied that women enjoyed sex more. Hera, who thought that men enjoyed sex more, blinded Tiresias. Zeus then gave him the power to see into the future because he felt bad for Tiresias. I thought that Hera's punishment was a bit extreme. She is excessively proud. Everyone is wrong sometimes, but I guess since she's a god and all, she can never be wrong. I see this more as a "haha look at me I'm right again" type of deal between Zeus and Hera. It's typical to see the male ego take over after a victory, even if it's a verbal one. Although I believe Hera's punishment to be a bit harsh, it nonetheless taught him a lesson. Sometimes you have to lie to benefit yourself. Unfortunately Tiresias did not get the message, as he once again told the truth to Oedipus in "Oedipus the King" which brought Tiresias to his demise. On whether women enjoy sex more than men, I can only assume that both men and women enjoy sex equally. I'm no Tiresias, and can only speak from a man's perspective. Sex is awesome... just make sure you always use protection... woo!
I do not wholly agree with Capellanus' view of love. I really don't think love follows specific boundaries and rules. To say that blind people cannot love is ridiculous. I believe that you when you are in love with someone, you know it, its as simple as that. There is no specific time allotted before you are allowed to fall in love, be in love, whatever you may call it. Love can happen at anytime, at any age. I'm pretty sure that I loved my family before I was 12 years old. When dealing with the more sensual aspects of love, I still disagree with Capellanus. Physical attraction can only take you so far in a relationship. He seems to be obsessed with the superficial aspects of love, not with the emotional. I do not agree with his view of love at all.
Courtly Love Readings
Andreas Capellanus (late 12th cent.)
De Amore (1184-86)
A Treatise on Courtly Love (Excerpts)
What is Love?
Love is an inborn suffering proceeding from the sight and immoderate thought upon the beauty of the other sex, for which cause above all other things one wishes to embrace the other and, by common assent, in this embrace to fulfill the commandments of love. . . .
From Whence Love is Named
"Love (amor)" is derived from the word "hook (amar)", which signifies "capture" or "be captured." For he who loves is caught in the chains of desire and wishes to catch another with his hook.
What is the Effect of Love
The true lover can not be corrupted by avarice; love makes an ugly and rude person shine with all beauty, knows how to endow with nobility even one of humble birth, can even lend humility to the proud; he who loves is accustomed humbly to serve others.
What Persons are Suited for Love
[The author goes on to specify the requirements of a lover -- girls must be at least 12, boys 14, though for true love men must be at least 18 years old and under 60 (after that age, though copulation is possible true passion is lacking); women must be under fifty. Age, blindness and excessive passion are all bars to true love.]
Blindness impedes love, for a blind man cannot see that on which his mind can reflect immoderately. Therefore love cannot arise in him, as is adequately proven above. But I recognize that this is true only of the moment in which love is acquired, for I do not deny that love can endure in a man who acquired love before he went blind.
Too great an abundance of passion impedes love, for there are those who are so enslaved by desire that they cannot be restrained by the bonds of love; those who after deep thoughts of their lady or even having enjoyed the fruits of love, when they see another immediately desire her embraces, forgetting the services received from their former lover and revealing their ingratitude.
The Rules of Love
1. Marriage is no excuse for not loving.2. He who is not jealous can not love.3. No one can be bound by two loves.4. Love is always growing or diminishing.5. It is not good for one lover to take anything against the will of the other.6. A male cannot love until he has fully reached puberty.7. Two years of mourning for a dead lover are prescribed for surviving lovers.8. No one should be deprived of love without a valid reason.9. No one can love who is not driven to do so by the power of love.10. Love always departs from the dwelling place of avarice.11. It is not proper to love one whom one would be ashamed to marry.12. The true lover never desires the embraces of any save his lover.13. Love rarely lasts when it is revealed.14. An easy attainment makes love contemptible; a difficult onemakes it more dear.15. Every lover turns pale in the presence of his beloved.16. When a lover suddenly has sight of his beloved, his heart beats wildly.17. A new love expells an old one.18. Moral integrity alone makes one worthy of love.19. If love diminishes, it quickly leaves and rarely revives.20. A lover is always fearful.21. True jealousy always increases the effects of love.22. If a lover suspects another, jealousy and the efects of love increase.23. He who is vexed by the thoughts of love eats little and seldom sleeps.24. Every action of a lover ends in the thought of his beloved.25. The true lover believes only that which he thinks will please his beloved.26. Love can deny nothing to love.27. A lover can never have enough of the embraces of his beloved.28. The slightest suspicion incites the lover to suspect the worse of his beloved.29. He who suffers from an excess of passion is not suited to love.30. The true lover is continuously obsessed with the image of his beloved.31. Nothing prevents a woman from being loved by two men, or a manfrom being loved by two women.
Ovid’s Ars Amoratia
Who in this town knows not the lover’s art (Cont’d)
Should read this book, and play an expert’s part. Don’t miss the ring where animals race
It’s art that speeds the boat with oars and sails, you’ll find much vantage in that crowded place
Art drives the chariot, art in love prevails. Not here by sign of hand or nod of head
For young Love’s guide has Venus chosen men, need hints be dropped or messages be sped.
Love’s pilot and Love’s charioteer I’ll be. Sit next to your mistress none can say “no”
Though he be wild and apt to flout my rule, press side to side as close as you may
He’s but a boy, an easy age to school. Thanks to the custom of the crowded bench
The worse he stabs, the fiercer burns his flame shy though she is, you’re bound to squeeze her.
So much the fitter I to avenge the maim.
I’ll not pretend to powers by Phoebus given, New love will the Circus bring
Nor warnings uttered by the fowls of heaven. And the sad gladiator’s sandy ring.
Experience prompts my labors. Heed the sage: Love often in an arena fights a bout
With truths oh Venus! Help me fill my page. Look too for openings at the festive board,
For wine is not the diner’s sole reward.
To find an object worthy of his suit wine lights the fire of passion in the soul,
Is the first duty of our new recruit: cares melt and vanish in the brimming bowl.
The next to gain the chosen damsel’s ‘yes’, then laughter comes and frowns and cares
The last to keep her love for many a day. And sorrows take to flight. But beware:
Night hides each fault, each blemish forgot
While you are free with slackened rein to rove the hour can make a beauty of a dog
Choose one whom you can call your only love. To daylight pearls and purple gowns refer
Think not she’ll drop before you from the skies: of face a body let the day be judge.
To find a fitting mistress, use your eyes.
The hunter learns where stags are to be snared,
And in what glens the tusky boar is laired;
So you who’re on a lasting love intent
Must learn the spots that damsels most frequent.
Thick as the stars the fair abound in Rome;
In her son’s city Venus makes her home.
If it’s the first still budding years you prize,
A genuine maid is there to greet your eyes.
If mellow age attracts and riper mind,
Here too, be sure, a goodly throng you’ll find.
Presenter 3 Text:
First tell yourself all women can be won: (cont’d)
Just spread your nets; the thing’s as good as done. Nor let your hair with curling tongs be curled
Scrape acquaintance with your lover’s maid: nor make your limbs soft with pumice stone
Your path will be the smoother for her aid. Leave such to the women
See that her mistress’ confidence she shares man’s beauty needs no varnish.
And holds the secret of her love affairs. Limb’s clean and tanned by exercise delight,
Her with prayers and promises secure; and spotless clothes that match the figure right.
With her good will you triumph. Have expert hands trim hair and beard
Then try your lover when her rival’s roused her anger: keep nostrils free from lurking bristles
Make it your duty to avenge the slight. Nor by foul breath from unclean lips exhaled.
Bid her maid speak of you and plead your case.
Should one seduce the maid as well? Tears are helpful too, tears will melt a stone
The graves risks in such adventures dwell. Wet cheeks at all costs must be shown.
One’s keen, one slacker having shared your sleep, if tears should fail you, touch your eyes
One takes you for your mistress, one to keep. With a moistened hand, perhaps she’ll first
The issue’s doubtful: even though chance befriend resist and call you rude, yet while resisting longs
The plan’s not one that I would recommend. To be subdued. But careful, lest her tender lips
My lady’s birthday most of all beware, be scarred and she cry “you kiss to hard.”
Ban any day when giving’s in the air.
Dodge as you will, she’ll rob you: woman’s brain diverse are women’s hearts
Discovers ways to steal. A thousand minds demand a thousand arts.
Be warned and to Rhetoric pay heed. Nor think one method for all ages fit:
Just as the courts, the senate and the crowd who shocks a prude makes a poor wretch
So woman’s heart by eloquence is bowed. Distrust herself at once; and thus, while
Use language plain and speech of common folk from a gentleman she shrinks, into some
If it’s rejected at first and returned unread lowly embrace she vilely sinks.
Expect she’ll read it soon and go ahead.
Presenter 4 Text (The Cures of Love):
When Cupid read the title of this volume, (cont’d)
‘It’s war on me’ he cried. Her figure’s slender? Call her lank and lean.
Please Cupid don’t hold me, your poet, guilty And call her pert if she’s not naïve.
Who at your side so long your flag bore. And if she’s well behaved, naïve you mean.
Others may cool, but I’m in love forever, coax her to demonstrate her lack of talent:
Besides I’ve taught the art to win you. if she has no voice, insist upon her singing
Sweet boy, I’ve not betrayed you and make her dance if she can’t move her arms.
Good luck to any lover who likes loving. Her accent’s bad? Keep her in conversations
But if some minx has got him in her clutches, her teeth are bad? Say what will make her laugh.
Safety in this book he’ll find. It will help to pay a sudden visit at morning
Why should a lover knot a noose and dangle before she’s put on her disguise
Or plunge a sword in his breast? Dress sweeps us off our feet: in gold and jewels
Let him who’ll die of love unless he ends it all is hidden: the girl herself is the smallest part.
End it, then Love shall be the death of none. Among so much you wonder what you’re loving
You’re a boy, you’re only fit for playing when you see her face and the ointments
A kindly reign best suits your years: play on. and colors and greases it will turn your stomach
You who find it hard to unlearn your loving avoid lonely places lovers. Lonely places
Who can’t and wish you could, must call me. are harmful; in a crowd you’re more secure.
Keep thinking what your wicked girl’s been doing; you have no need of privacy, if you’re alone
Before your eyes set every loss you’ve had: you’ll mope. Your girl abandoned before
“There’s this and that and still she wants more your eyes will loom. Also, the night is sadder
I’ve had to sell my house, it got so bad. Than the hours of sunshine, with no companions
She dotes on others, finds my love offensive to relieve your gloom. So keep your doors open
And gives a salesman nights I get no more.” Nor in the dark to conceal yourself.
Let all those things embitter your whole being don’t ask what she’s doing, stop moaning!
Brood over them, seek seeds of hatred here. From silence she’ll just fade away.
Make comments about her attractions: but it’s a crime to hate your ex-girlfriend
“those legs, how ugly; those arms are not pretty that bad way out is for brutes.
how short she is! How demanding!” let your indifference is enough: who ends love hating
comments fall on the wrong side. is still in love and can’t easily let go of sorrow.
De Amore (1184-86)
A Treatise on Courtly Love (Excerpts)
What is Love?
Love is an inborn suffering proceeding from the sight and immoderate thought upon the beauty of the other sex, for which cause above all other things one wishes to embrace the other and, by common assent, in this embrace to fulfill the commandments of love. . . .
From Whence Love is Named
"Love (amor)" is derived from the word "hook (amar)", which signifies "capture" or "be captured." For he who loves is caught in the chains of desire and wishes to catch another with his hook.
What is the Effect of Love
The true lover can not be corrupted by avarice; love makes an ugly and rude person shine with all beauty, knows how to endow with nobility even one of humble birth, can even lend humility to the proud; he who loves is accustomed humbly to serve others.
What Persons are Suited for Love
[The author goes on to specify the requirements of a lover -- girls must be at least 12, boys 14, though for true love men must be at least 18 years old and under 60 (after that age, though copulation is possible true passion is lacking); women must be under fifty. Age, blindness and excessive passion are all bars to true love.]
Blindness impedes love, for a blind man cannot see that on which his mind can reflect immoderately. Therefore love cannot arise in him, as is adequately proven above. But I recognize that this is true only of the moment in which love is acquired, for I do not deny that love can endure in a man who acquired love before he went blind.
Too great an abundance of passion impedes love, for there are those who are so enslaved by desire that they cannot be restrained by the bonds of love; those who after deep thoughts of their lady or even having enjoyed the fruits of love, when they see another immediately desire her embraces, forgetting the services received from their former lover and revealing their ingratitude.
The Rules of Love
1. Marriage is no excuse for not loving.2. He who is not jealous can not love.3. No one can be bound by two loves.4. Love is always growing or diminishing.5. It is not good for one lover to take anything against the will of the other.6. A male cannot love until he has fully reached puberty.7. Two years of mourning for a dead lover are prescribed for surviving lovers.8. No one should be deprived of love without a valid reason.9. No one can love who is not driven to do so by the power of love.10. Love always departs from the dwelling place of avarice.11. It is not proper to love one whom one would be ashamed to marry.12. The true lover never desires the embraces of any save his lover.13. Love rarely lasts when it is revealed.14. An easy attainment makes love contemptible; a difficult onemakes it more dear.15. Every lover turns pale in the presence of his beloved.16. When a lover suddenly has sight of his beloved, his heart beats wildly.17. A new love expells an old one.18. Moral integrity alone makes one worthy of love.19. If love diminishes, it quickly leaves and rarely revives.20. A lover is always fearful.21. True jealousy always increases the effects of love.22. If a lover suspects another, jealousy and the efects of love increase.23. He who is vexed by the thoughts of love eats little and seldom sleeps.24. Every action of a lover ends in the thought of his beloved.25. The true lover believes only that which he thinks will please his beloved.26. Love can deny nothing to love.27. A lover can never have enough of the embraces of his beloved.28. The slightest suspicion incites the lover to suspect the worse of his beloved.29. He who suffers from an excess of passion is not suited to love.30. The true lover is continuously obsessed with the image of his beloved.31. Nothing prevents a woman from being loved by two men, or a manfrom being loved by two women.
Ovid’s Ars Amoratia
Who in this town knows not the lover’s art (Cont’d)
Should read this book, and play an expert’s part. Don’t miss the ring where animals race
It’s art that speeds the boat with oars and sails, you’ll find much vantage in that crowded place
Art drives the chariot, art in love prevails. Not here by sign of hand or nod of head
For young Love’s guide has Venus chosen men, need hints be dropped or messages be sped.
Love’s pilot and Love’s charioteer I’ll be. Sit next to your mistress none can say “no”
Though he be wild and apt to flout my rule, press side to side as close as you may
He’s but a boy, an easy age to school. Thanks to the custom of the crowded bench
The worse he stabs, the fiercer burns his flame shy though she is, you’re bound to squeeze her.
So much the fitter I to avenge the maim.
I’ll not pretend to powers by Phoebus given, New love will the Circus bring
Nor warnings uttered by the fowls of heaven. And the sad gladiator’s sandy ring.
Experience prompts my labors. Heed the sage: Love often in an arena fights a bout
With truths oh Venus! Help me fill my page. Look too for openings at the festive board,
For wine is not the diner’s sole reward.
To find an object worthy of his suit wine lights the fire of passion in the soul,
Is the first duty of our new recruit: cares melt and vanish in the brimming bowl.
The next to gain the chosen damsel’s ‘yes’, then laughter comes and frowns and cares
The last to keep her love for many a day. And sorrows take to flight. But beware:
Night hides each fault, each blemish forgot
While you are free with slackened rein to rove the hour can make a beauty of a dog
Choose one whom you can call your only love. To daylight pearls and purple gowns refer
Think not she’ll drop before you from the skies: of face a body let the day be judge.
To find a fitting mistress, use your eyes.
The hunter learns where stags are to be snared,
And in what glens the tusky boar is laired;
So you who’re on a lasting love intent
Must learn the spots that damsels most frequent.
Thick as the stars the fair abound in Rome;
In her son’s city Venus makes her home.
If it’s the first still budding years you prize,
A genuine maid is there to greet your eyes.
If mellow age attracts and riper mind,
Here too, be sure, a goodly throng you’ll find.
Presenter 3 Text:
First tell yourself all women can be won: (cont’d)
Just spread your nets; the thing’s as good as done. Nor let your hair with curling tongs be curled
Scrape acquaintance with your lover’s maid: nor make your limbs soft with pumice stone
Your path will be the smoother for her aid. Leave such to the women
See that her mistress’ confidence she shares man’s beauty needs no varnish.
And holds the secret of her love affairs. Limb’s clean and tanned by exercise delight,
Her with prayers and promises secure; and spotless clothes that match the figure right.
With her good will you triumph. Have expert hands trim hair and beard
Then try your lover when her rival’s roused her anger: keep nostrils free from lurking bristles
Make it your duty to avenge the slight. Nor by foul breath from unclean lips exhaled.
Bid her maid speak of you and plead your case.
Should one seduce the maid as well? Tears are helpful too, tears will melt a stone
The graves risks in such adventures dwell. Wet cheeks at all costs must be shown.
One’s keen, one slacker having shared your sleep, if tears should fail you, touch your eyes
One takes you for your mistress, one to keep. With a moistened hand, perhaps she’ll first
The issue’s doubtful: even though chance befriend resist and call you rude, yet while resisting longs
The plan’s not one that I would recommend. To be subdued. But careful, lest her tender lips
My lady’s birthday most of all beware, be scarred and she cry “you kiss to hard.”
Ban any day when giving’s in the air.
Dodge as you will, she’ll rob you: woman’s brain diverse are women’s hearts
Discovers ways to steal. A thousand minds demand a thousand arts.
Be warned and to Rhetoric pay heed. Nor think one method for all ages fit:
Just as the courts, the senate and the crowd who shocks a prude makes a poor wretch
So woman’s heart by eloquence is bowed. Distrust herself at once; and thus, while
Use language plain and speech of common folk from a gentleman she shrinks, into some
If it’s rejected at first and returned unread lowly embrace she vilely sinks.
Expect she’ll read it soon and go ahead.
Presenter 4 Text (The Cures of Love):
When Cupid read the title of this volume, (cont’d)
‘It’s war on me’ he cried. Her figure’s slender? Call her lank and lean.
Please Cupid don’t hold me, your poet, guilty And call her pert if she’s not naïve.
Who at your side so long your flag bore. And if she’s well behaved, naïve you mean.
Others may cool, but I’m in love forever, coax her to demonstrate her lack of talent:
Besides I’ve taught the art to win you. if she has no voice, insist upon her singing
Sweet boy, I’ve not betrayed you and make her dance if she can’t move her arms.
Good luck to any lover who likes loving. Her accent’s bad? Keep her in conversations
But if some minx has got him in her clutches, her teeth are bad? Say what will make her laugh.
Safety in this book he’ll find. It will help to pay a sudden visit at morning
Why should a lover knot a noose and dangle before she’s put on her disguise
Or plunge a sword in his breast? Dress sweeps us off our feet: in gold and jewels
Let him who’ll die of love unless he ends it all is hidden: the girl herself is the smallest part.
End it, then Love shall be the death of none. Among so much you wonder what you’re loving
You’re a boy, you’re only fit for playing when you see her face and the ointments
A kindly reign best suits your years: play on. and colors and greases it will turn your stomach
You who find it hard to unlearn your loving avoid lonely places lovers. Lonely places
Who can’t and wish you could, must call me. are harmful; in a crowd you’re more secure.
Keep thinking what your wicked girl’s been doing; you have no need of privacy, if you’re alone
Before your eyes set every loss you’ve had: you’ll mope. Your girl abandoned before
“There’s this and that and still she wants more your eyes will loom. Also, the night is sadder
I’ve had to sell my house, it got so bad. Than the hours of sunshine, with no companions
She dotes on others, finds my love offensive to relieve your gloom. So keep your doors open
And gives a salesman nights I get no more.” Nor in the dark to conceal yourself.
Let all those things embitter your whole being don’t ask what she’s doing, stop moaning!
Brood over them, seek seeds of hatred here. From silence she’ll just fade away.
Make comments about her attractions: but it’s a crime to hate your ex-girlfriend
“those legs, how ugly; those arms are not pretty that bad way out is for brutes.
how short she is! How demanding!” let your indifference is enough: who ends love hating
comments fall on the wrong side. is still in love and can’t easily let go of sorrow.
Tuesday, October 14, 2008
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
6 comments:
I agree with you when you say that love doesn't follow specific rules and boundaries. I think that if he broadened some of his rules they wouldn't seem so extreme, but he's trying to control too much. His comments about people over 60 and blind people were really biased and clearly showed no factual foundation. In some aspects he seems emotionally detached.
I agree with what you say about his restrictions between absurd. Love is not something which can be easily boxed into a specific set of categories, and certainly there are no restrictions regarding who can and cannot love. I personally disagreed with his statement that blind people and people over 60 cannot love. I thought that was completely unfounded as there is no evidence to back that up. I think love can happen at any time and in any place and it is absurd to assume one can put restrictions on that.
You seem to point out a very good point of view on the fact that Ovid was very self centered. It is so true that love has to work both ways for it to work, you cannot just choose anyone in the crowd and be with that person just because you feel that way. Love does not have rules or boundaries, and it makes you do crazy things. To say that someone is incapable of loving or is not fit to love is just absurd. I believe that there is love for everyone out there and like Ovid says " you have to look for it with your eyes".
I agree with you that Ovid's love description is really self centered. Just because you choose that person and decide to love them doesn't mean the person will love you back. I think in today's magazines which suggested to take down the picture is just simply trying to make it easier for you to get through the breakup. Eventually everything will go back to normal, it just takes time.
You make a good point about Ovid focusing on a physical level of attraction rather than emotion. It is more important to have personality rather than appearance in most relationships. Ovid created a set of rules for love but it seems like it would work only for himself because I don't think anyone would follow it. It is too restrictive and absurd.
I agree when you spoke of love in your third paragraph. I also feel that it is not true that a blind person cannot love and love is not limited within a number of ages. I feel that you are able to love as soon as you are born because you grow close to the person who is there for you. I also feel that it is true that a physical relationship can only take the relationship so far and the emotional element is definitely the major part within a relationship.
Post a Comment